What I’ve learned from recording 100 podcasts about songwriting and bereavement. By Swan Song Podcast Host Ben Buddy Slack.

 

I recently recorded the 100th episode of The Swan Song Podcast which will be released on Tuesday 3rd September and I thought it would be nice to look back on what I’ve learned from these conversations.

Still from Swan Song Podcast 100 ft Richard Gibson and Ben Buddy Slack. Both smilingStill from Swan Song Podcast 100 featuring Mari Isdale and Ben Buddy Slack. Both Smiling.

What is The Swan Song Podcast?

The Swan Song Podcast is one of the things offered by the charity The Swan Song Project and features conversations about songwriting and bereavement. I founded The Swan Song Project in 2017 to help people who were facing the end of their lives to write and record an original song. The inspiration came after losing my Grandma and regretting not writing a song with her before she died. I started working with patients in local hospices and it just went from strength to strength really. We now have a team of songwriters and help people all across the country to write their Swan Songs. You can find out more about all of this on our website.

 

It was all going great and then there was a global pandemic which threw a bit of a spanner into the works. We were unable to go to hospices to meet patients and had to pause our service. We didn’t feel like we would be able to deliver our sessions over Zoom at the time due to the delicate and sensitive nature of them. Over time we decided we had to give that a go and I am very pleased to say it worked really well and is something we continue to do to this day. 

 

In the time when we weren’t delivering sessions though we decided to start recording a podcast where I would speak to songwriters about how they wrote songs but also about grief. It would be in 3 sections:

  • One of the guests songs and a chat about how they wrote it,
  • A Songwriting tip,
  • A Song that is meaningful to the guest relating to bereavement.

 

This has been the format for 99 episodes (100 is slightly different – more below). 

One of our aims at Swan Song is for as many people as possible to use music to help them deal with bereavement. We directly help people to write songs but also wanted to be able to inspire people to write songs without our direct help. We thought sharing podcasts with practical tips and stories of how songs are written would help with this.

We also wanted to share experiences of how music can help with grief in different ways. I have had so many lovely interactions with people over the years when they tell me about particular songs that remind them of someone they have lost. The songs can hold such precious memories and listening to them can often help people feel connected again. I wanted to be able to share these kinds of stories publicly. We hope these stories can be solace to listeners dealing with grief and maybe help them think of what songs are special to them.

 

Anyway, that’s a long intro. Onto what I have learned from 100 podcasts about songwriting and bereavement:

 

Songwriting

No right way to write a song

There are so many ways to write a song and no method will guarantee a better or worse song than another. I think if I had to share 1 take away from all these conversations that would probably be it. Every guest has told me of different ways they have written songs, most guests have written in many different ways and don’t have a fixed method. They are often as surprised as anyone at where particular songs came from. Even though this isn’t a practical tip I do find it inspiring. If you are thinking of writing songs, just start writing and find whatever method works for you and know that that is just as good a method as any. There is no “this is the way you should write a song” so find your own way.

 

Conscious or Unconscious inspiration

Where peoples ideas come from is an infinitely fascinating topic for me. Some guests have a clear story of where inspiration came from – particularly with songs about grief – but many don’t know where the ideas came from. It is often attributed to an outside force. I spoke at a songwriting conference a few months ago where Dr Simon Barber of the Sodajerker podcast talked about this phenomenon in detail, I’ll add a link if it becomes available online anywhere. I love the mystery in creativity and often joke at the irony of loving it whilst simultaneously asking songwriters to break it down and explain it all to me. 

Some guests have had realisations during the podcast about the meaning of their songs which always feels special. I think a lot of them write their songs and don’t think too much about them, having an hour and a beardy guy asking you in depth questions about them is likely to reveal some interesting things. 

What I’ve learned from this is that inspiration can come from anywhere and you don’t have to understand it straight away, just follow your inspiration in whatever way it appears.

 

The most common practical songwriting tip

Always have a way to capture ideas. So many guests emphasise this very wise piece of advice. Some use notebooks, some use voice notes (I find a lot of guests have a lean toward the music or the lyric side of songwriting and I wonder if this preference would match their way of capturing ideas). The message is that ideas can be fleeting and you never know what ideas will be useful, if you don’t capture them they could be lost forever. Many share stories of returning to their notes years later and writing great songs from random snippets. I think this also helps with the awareness required for songwriting, always having a means of capturing ideas helps with always being open to ideas and inspiration.

Bereavement

Most people love being able to talk about people they have lost.

Conversations about grief can be really hard. We don’t want to upset people but what I have found for the most part is that people love the chance to talk about the people they have lost and appreciate someone listening. Often people can be surprised by how emotional they get when talking about a bereavement but it has generally been a postive thing in my experience. If you are unsure of how to speak to someone who is grieving, my advice would be to ask if they want to talk about the person. They can say no if they want. Then listen and ask questions, let them share their stories or how they are feeling. You don’t to have any answers to their grief but your ears will likely be appreciated.

 

Most people do have songs that remind them of people.

Some guests struggle with choosing a song for the third section of the podcast but most have several that they struggle to choose between. Sometimes they are particular songs about bereavement and sometimes the song has nothing to do with grief but holds memories of a special person. These stories are often incredibly moving but are also generally very happy memories and a joy to hear. It does feel a privilege to hear people share with you what a song means to them. It has also introduced me to loads of great artists I didn’t know about. 

 

Sign up to The Swan Song Newsletter to get an email about what song I would choose for this section if I was on the podcast myself.

 

Podcasting

I thought it would be interesting to share a few things I have learned about podcasting too as I think it is a fascinating artform. Most people think it must be really easy, just having nice conversations with interesting people, a lot of the time they would be right but there is also a lot of work that goes into it and some particular skills I think make for a good podcast (Not saying I do them all perfectly but certainly some aspirations)

 

Research

I always try to do a good amount of research on my guests but this can be hard as I fit the podcast in between the main songwriting work of the charity. I hate listening to podcasts where the host doesn’t know key things about their guest. You can’t know everything about them but do as much research as you can. My focus is mainly on process so I can sometimes get away without knowing as much as I would like because we focus on the nitty gritty of how they work but I don’t like it when I feel unprepared. I sometimes prepare a few questions but this is actually quite rare for me.

 

Listen more than talk

When the podcast is mostly about the guest I think the host should aim to talk as little as possible. I try to give them as much space as I can and just ask questions to keep things moving or focus in on particular areas I think are interesting. I will add my own experiences when asked or when I feel it will help with building rapport or lead to an interesting question but in general I try not to. My thoughts are if a listener is there for a particular guest they want to hear them speak and if someone is a regular listener they wouldn’t want to hear me telling the same stories over and over again. Leaving space for the guests to elaborate as well I feel is very valuable.

 

Highlights

I think my biggest highlight of the podcast so far was speaking to Mike Scott of The Waterboys about writing “Whole of The Moon” (and about his 2 chord songs). The Waterboys are big favourites of mine and Mike was a brilliant guest. “Whole of The Moon” was the first dance at my wedding so it is a very special song to me. After the podcast Mike said to let him know if we were coming to see them play at any point and that it would be great to meet in person. I did and he arranged backstage passes for my wife and I for their show in York last year. This was amazing.

 

Boff Whalley from Chumbawamba also was a great guest on the podcast. A few months after we recorded I was working on a song with a woman with cancer and she wanted her song to be musically inspired by the Chumbawamba hit “Tubthumping”. Boff had been very supportive of the charity when we recorded the podcast so I wrote to him and asked if he would help with her song and he did. He did an incredible job with it and she was so chuffed to have had him involved. Many guests offer to help Swan Song if they can in any way and I always appreciate it but rarely know what I could ask them to do to help. This was a great example of things coming together perfectly.

 

Other podcast inspiration/recommendations.

It wouldn’t feel right to not quickly mention a few other podcasts I find inspiring:

 

Sodajerker – Probably the best songwriting podcast out there. It features amazing guests and is run by 2 great guys – Simon Barber and Brian O’Connell. They are incredibly knowledgeable about songwriting and must do an amazing amount of research for each episode. 

 

Broken Record – Broken Record has a few different hosts, Malcolm Gladwell, Justin Richmond, Bruce Headlam and the great Rick Rubin. They get amazing guests on and go into really interesting areas of songwriting. Rick Rubin is one of the few hosts of a podcast who I am happy to hear talk as much as a guest as he is just such a wise and fascinating person.

 

BlindBoy Podcast – Not specifically a songwriting podcast but he does talk about creativity a lot. This is my current favourite podcast partly because it is so unique. He covers a huge range of topics and has a lot of great guests on. It is a great mix of humour and great stories. I particularly enjoyed interviews with Donal Ryan, Chris O’Dowd and David Keohan who is on a mission to find the lost lifting stones of Ireland.

 

This has become a lot longer than I expected it to be but I hope it has been an interesting read.

 

Episode 100 of The Swan Song Podcast comes out on Tuesday 3rd September and feature 2 people who have written songs with the project.

Part 1 feature Richard Gibson who wrote a song called “Forever Young (Boy Wonder) in memory of his Son Leo who died by suicide.

Part 2 feature Mari Isdale who is 39 and living with terminal cancer. She wrote a song called “To The Stars and Back for her family.

Both share their songs and talk about their experiences of writing them as well as a tip for anyone thinking of writing their first song.

 

Subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. I hope you enjoy it and many more episodes in the future.

Listen to previous episode here.

If you would like to support more people to write their Swan Songs, please consider donating to The Swan Song Project.

 

Every donation makes a big difference and helps more people to celebrate life in a song

 

 

 

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“Just wanted to thank you for being around at Marie Curie hospice, my son passed away on 22 March what was going on in his head is unimaginable. I know he enjoyed writing that song which must have provided some relief for him a break from the discomfort and stress perhaps. So a sincere thank you from myself and his family I hope you can keep up this good work”

“This has been one of the best memories I can recall in a long while. I will treasure this great gift always.”

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